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David WestinAuthor, 'Exit Interview'; Former President, ABC News GET UPDATES FROM David Westin Like 6 When Facts DeceivePosted: 09/06/2012 5:23 pm React
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Elections 2012, 2012 Campaign, Fact Check, Fact Checking, Media, Paul Ryan Rnc Speech, Political Media, You Didn't Build That, Media News#news_entries #ad_sharebox_260x60 img {padding:0px;margin:0px} share this story Submit this storydiggredditstumble
Considering that facts are always true, it's surprising how often they can deceive us.
That's why all the fighting between the presidential campaigns over the facts and whether they're being manipulated to mislead is much, much more than just petty politics. Thankfully, at least for the moment, we've come light-years from being trapped in a fiction that "fair and balanced" is the best way to cover all the serious issues of the day. (Remember the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth saga and how little time the news media spent trying to find out what John Kerry really did in Vietnam?)
Sometimes there is a right answer, and we need people in the media to have the courage to call some balls and strikes as our leaders and those around them are throwing fastballs and curves at us. And it looks like we do.
It all started during the primaries when Governor Romney said "I like to fire people," and both Democrats and Republican rivals jumped all over him. But almost immediately some in the media -- including some commentators otherwise critical of Mr. Romney -- pointed out that he was talking about making sure people could switch their health insurance by "firing" one company and "hiring" another when their current provider wasn't getting the job done. Who could object to that?
Then President Obama this summer said "you didn't build that," and some of Mr. Romney's supporters found it proof positive that Mr. Obama doesn't respect private business. As with Mr. Romney's talk about firing people, there wasn't any question that Mr. Obama had said what he'd said; the question was what he'd meant. Was it that people hadn't really built their businesses? Or was it that they hadn't built the roads and bridges and infrastructure that supported those businesses? Once again, there were those in the mainstream media who stepped in promptly, took a hard look, and concluded the president had been talking about the infrastructure, not the businesses.
But all of this was just the warm-up for the main truth-telling tussles of the summer. Historian, author, and Harvard Professor Niall Ferguson wrote a provocative cover story for Newsweek/Daily Beast on the eve of the Republican Convention laying out all the reasons Mr. Obama didn't deserve to be re-elected because, among other things, he'd breached his promises about what he'd do for the economy. Almost immediately, people like Paul Krugman and James Fallows had at Professor Ferguson. As with the quotes from President Obama and Governor Romney, the issue wasn't whether what Ferguson had written was literally true. Projections do show the costs of health care rising, but that isn't the same as a breached promise not to let them increase the deficit unless you ignore the revenues that are also part of the same projections. Yes, we've lost 4.3 million jobs since January 2008 -- but the president didn't take office until January 2009, and it hardly seems fair to hold him responsible for job losses during the last year of George W. Bush's presidency. Ferguson came back hard against all his critics. And, once again, he didn't deny the truth of what they said, but essentially argued it was all beside the point. (As something of a fan of Ferguson's other work, I'll read what he writes a lot more carefully in the future.)
Then we came to Representative Paul Ryan's speech last week to the Republican Convention. Like Ferguson, Mr. Ryan took President Obama to task and gave numbers and names. But also like Ferguson, he was met almost immediately with a flurry of challenges to how he was using the facts. It's true that President Obama had held out hope to an auto plant in Mr. Ryan's hometown that government assistance would save it, only to see the plant close. But the decision to close the plant came before Mr. Obama took office, while President George W. Bush was still in charge (something Mr. Ryan didn't mention). And it's true that President Obama didn't embrace the recommendations of the Bowles-Simpson commission that he put together. But Representative Ryan was a member of the commission who voted against its recommendations, so it's hard to see where he has the standing to criticize the president on this score.
Some people call this a period "post-truth" or worry that all the partisanship will distract the voters from focusing too closely on facts used to mislead. But whatever it all means, at least we have some media focused on what's true and what's not -- and we're seeing that "technically true" most often is neither technical nor true. Whether all this leads to our being better informed or whether people simply turn away saying "they all do it" is up to us.
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Exit Interviewby David Westin FOLLOW MEDIA Like 50k Get Alerts #ad_bottom_article_text {margin-bottom: 15px} Elections 2012Considering that facts are always true, it's surprising how often they can deceive us. That's why all the fighting between the presidential campaigns over the facts and whether they're being manipul...Considering that facts are always true, it's surprising how often they can deceive us. That's why all the fighting between the presidential campaigns over the facts and whether they're being manipul...
nytimesglobal Checkpoint: Checking Facts on Obama and Biden Speeches http://t.co/eMYTqrk3 6 minutes ago from The New York Times 
egaucher RT @celiameriguet: Avec du fact-checking en direct sur @francetvinfo RT @bastienhugues: Dimanche à 17h40, @JVPlace invité de #CPolitique . 2 hours ago from Twitter for iPhone 
PoliticsPolice FactChecking Obama and Biden http://t.co/1J6lqk0j 3 hours ago from SocialOomph 
newsmary This makes good points about how fact-checking is still part of the same narrative-led process as other reporting http://t.co/WzWL6nLP? 5 hours ago from Tweetbot for iOS 
nytimes Checkpoint: Checking Facts on Obama and Biden Speeches http://t.co/brNzyzPy 6 hours ago from The New York Times 
trakgalvis RT @washingtonpost: Fact-checking Obama's speech: http://t.co/4FT4II8F via @DylanMatt #News 6 hours ago from Linux Command 
washingtonpost Fact-checking Obama's speech: http://t.co/nMQlTOWC via @DylanMatt 7 hours ago from SocialFlow 
palafo Team Ryan is now fact-checking itself. This time: mountain climbing numbers. http://t.co/cni8hmNL 7 hours ago from NYTimes on iOS 
johnnydollar01 Fact-checking commences... RT @DRUDGE_REPORT: AP: Obama and the phantom peace dividend... http://t.co/OeY9Iswl 8 hours ago from TweetDeck 
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politifact We've been fact-checking Barack Obama since 2007, most fact-checked person on the Truth-O-Meter. http://t.co/FVoObG88 #DNC 9 hours ago from HootSuite 
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View AllFavoritesBloggers Recency | Popularity Page: 1 2 3 4 5 Next › Last » (5 total) Elinor Dandrea11 Fans 16 minutes ago ( 7:29 AM)I believe in journalisms code of ethics. Truth ,accuracy, and giving the people an honest account of the facts..would make for a much better government. There was a time, when the 4th estate stayed away from the powerful, so as not to become their buddys. Giving them the distance required, to at least remain somewhat objective. That has been lost, for far too long. Media now seems to believe they personally gain, from shmoozing with these powerful friends. And what did we get from them not remaining more objective? A more corrupt govenment, who now believe they can feed the media their talking points..without them fact checking their friends. The internet and instant taping and imaging is now making the media rethink who they will better serve.Holding the powerful to account, forces them to be more honest, when the 4th estate does their job as truth seekers, rather than them swooning over their every word, as sophmoric star struck friends.Elinor_Dandrea: I believe in journalisms code of ethics. Truth ,accuracy, andhttp://www.huffingtonpost.com/social/Elinor_Dandrea/media-fact-checking_b_1862561_184741827.htmlHistory |Permalink |Share itThis comment has been down-ranked into oblivion. View comment You have not right to carry out this operation or Error this operation.
Loading comments… FirstGame72The Sleep of Reason Produces Monsters569 Fans 22 minutes ago ( 7:23 AM)People always believe what they want to believe, the "story" they like best, and so called facts don't sway them.I know that in almost any situation or any subject there are plenty of pure, objective facts but they have very little influence over what individuals believe it true about anything. Each person chooses the narrative they are most comfortable with and sticks to that.
It would be better to argue for and try to convince people to make the most moral and decent choices going forward than waste time trying to convince them of what has already occured.FirstGame72: People always believe what they want to believe, the "story"http://www.huffingtonpost.com/social/FirstGame72/media-fact-checking_b_1862561_184741081.htmlHistory |Permalink |Share itThis comment has been down-ranked into oblivion. View comment You have not right to carry out this operation or Error this operation.
Loading comments… jdave1113 Fans 1 hour ago ( 6:40 AM)"Facts" don't deceive, but a single fact, like a single piece of lumber, can't build much. With enough lumber you can build a house; with enough facts you can build the truth.jdave1: "Facts" don't deceive, but a single fact, like a singlehttp://www.huffingtonpost.com/social/jdave1/media-fact-checking_b_1862561_184736061.htmlHistory |Permalink |Share itThis comment has been down-ranked into oblivion. View comment You have not right to carry out this operation or Error this operation. Loading comments… 4U5Sonoma Shiva339 Fans 1 hour ago ( 6:37 AM)The Media has the Responsibility to hold interviewee's answers to a modicum of truth and we the People OUGHT to not put up with LESS from a Free Press which means NOTHING without it being True.4U5: The Media has the Responsibility to hold interviewee's answers tohttp://www.huffingtonpost.com/social/4U5/media-fact-checking_b_1862561_184735787.htmlHistory |Permalink |Share itThis comment has been down-ranked into oblivion. View comment You have not right to carry out this operation or Error this operation. Loading comments… HUFFPOST SUPER USEREdReaObama vs. Ayn Ryan/Bain Akin - 20121554 Fans 2 hours ago ( 6:14 AM)Yes it is true that the nuances are missed by the criticizing presidential opponent and many pundits. However, the first example, the comparison of the "I like to fire people" and the "you didn't build this" misses a cultural implication on the part of Romney and his divide from average middle class Americans.Most people do not say, "I'm firing my insurance agent because of the insurance company they represent isn't as good as the competitor." They say, "This is a better company, I'm switching."
Most people see themselves as consumers in the insurance market -- not bosses over their insurance agents. That should certainly have been pointed out. It clearly demonstrates through Romney's words that he does not think like most Americans think. When you are not merely an employer, but someone whose wealth is created by the power you hold over others' jobs, then you probably do not see the people in the world around you from the same dynamics as the average American (to include many employers).EdRea: Yes it is true that the nuances are missed byhttp://www.huffingtonpost.com/social/EdRea/media-fact-checking_b_1862561_184733655.htmlHistory |Permalink |Share itThis comment has been down-ranked into oblivion. View comment You have not right to carry out this operation or Error this operation.
Loading comments… lastpostsee biography363 Fans 4 hours ago ( 4:12 AM)“When Facts Deceive”1.When they are individually incomplete. 2.When they are not comprehensive in totality. 3.When they are misinterpreted.
“facts are always true”
Surely facts are relative? To the degree of infallibly used in obtaining them. Thus only absolute infallibly results in absolute fact.
"I like to fire people,"
is not ‘I like to fire companies’. Companies are not people. Fact.
"you didn't build that"
is qualified, by what ‘that’ is. Also, even if indeed scratch built. Where did each individual element originate?
“people hadn't really built their businesses”
single handedly. Although anyone who contests this, is more than welcome to demonstrate how it can be done. The fact that none choose to, speaks volumes.
“Historian”
Hmmm…Like science itself, not an exact science.
“being better informed”
is of no practical value whatsoever. If there is no avenue though which that knowledge can be applied.lastpost: â??When Facts Deceiveâ?? 1.When they are individually incomplete. 2.When theyhttp://www.huffingtonpost.com/social/lastpost/media-fact-checking_b_1862561_184724836.htmlHistory |Permalink |Share it
HUFFPOST SUPER USERChristopher NagyThe angry middle.233 Fans 49 minutes ago ( 6:56 AM)Facts are only relative in hindsight. A fact is an objective truth, so anything that would be a relative fact is not a fact at all but rather an interpretation of other facts. If you argue that absolute infallibility is required for absolute fact, then you reduce the objective fact from a solid foundation to quicksand because you make it possible to argue something along the lines of the following: "this is only currently considered fact, and may change in the near future, so my argument assumes that it is not fact at all but rather an incorrectly quantified known variable." I understand the point about fallibility, but at some point you have to draw the line for real world use.In terms of "you didn't build that," it really should have been "you didn't build those," or perhaps even the more specific and slightly redundant (given the context around the quote) "you didn't build the infrastructure your business relies on." Personally, I find it odd that politicians don't have people who actively scour their speeches ahead of time for potential sound bite problems.Christopher_Nagy: Facts are only relative in hindsight. A fact is anhttp://www.huffingtonpost.com/social/Christopher_Nagy/media-fact-checking_b_1862561_184737777.htmlHistory |Permalink |Share itThis comment has been down-ranked into oblivion. View comment You have not right to carry out this operation or Error this operation.
Loading comments…This comment has been down-ranked into oblivion. View comment You have not right to carry out this operation or Error this operation. Loading comments… RosesIn a gentle way, you can shake the world.1092 Fans 4 hours ago ( 4:06 AM)The fact that Romney's campaign says that their 'campaign will not be dictated to by factcheckers' , tells me a lot. The fact that they keep repeating commercials that have been called lies by everyone in the media, tells me a lot.Roses: The fact that Romney's campaign says that their 'campaign willhttp://www.huffingtonpost.com/social/Roses/media-fact-checking_b_1862561_184724421.htmlHistory |Permalink |Share itThis comment has been down-ranked into oblivion. View comment You have not right to carry out this operation or Error this operation. Loading comments… Grigory Leps1 Fans 4 hours ago ( 3:54 AM)tennisrox16 Jan 12, 09, 06:38PM | #1Joined: Jan 12, 09
Posts: 1
i just payed for a essay on and i am not sure if they are a scam or not? can i get some feedback.. who are some legit essay writers that can write a few of my papers....?
trymedave Jan 14, 09, 06:59AM | #2
Joined: Dec 25, 08
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tennisrox16:
i just payed for a essay on and i am not sure if they are a scam or not? can i get some feedback.. who are some legit essay writers that can write a few of my papers....?
Dear Tennisrox,
I can help you out provided you are interested.
WritersBeware Jan 14, 09, 12:54PM | #3
WARNING:
Trymedave = fraud
trymedave Jan 14, 09, 01:43PM | #4
Joined: Dec 25, 08
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WB= Proven retardGrigory__Leps: tennisrox16 Jan 12, 09, 06:38PM | #1 Joined: Jan 12,http://www.huffingtonpost.com/social/Grigory__Leps/media-fact-checking_b_1862561_184723438.htmlHistory |Permalink |Share itThis comment has been down-ranked into oblivion. View comment You have not right to carry out this operation or Error this operation.
Loading comments… HUFFPOST SUPER USERthemodernleader1540 Fans 4 hours ago ( 3:43 AM) In this campaign getting at the truth requires taking the great circle route. Even then there are no guarantees.No matter what our leaders assert, the American people are being squeezed by this banking capitalism cartel, If our leaders can not loosen the strangle hold of corrupt capitalism and oligarchy, there will be anarchy and mobs trying to take control or our failed government.themodernleader: In this campaign getting at the truth requires taking thehttp://www.huffingtonpost.com/social/themodernleader/media-fact-checking_b_1862561_184722571.htmlHistory |Permalink |Share itThis comment has been down-ranked into oblivion. View comment You have not right to carry out this operation or Error this operation.
Loading comments… This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program NorCalOptimist5 Fans 4 hours ago ( 3:18 AM)Mr. Westin,You said "Yes, we've lost 4.3 million jobs since January 2008 -- but the president didn't take office until January 2009, and it hardly seems fair to hold him responsible for job losses during the last year of George W. Bush's presidency."
You fail to follow that with the well known fact that the orders to hunt down and if needed, kill Osama bin Laden as well as the deadline for ending the Iraq war were put in place by President Bush. Yet these accomplishments have been touted repeatedly as 2 of the 3 successes of Obama's presidency because they happened while he was in office. Is that "fair" or are you also guilty of what you see as a flaw in Ferguson?NorCalOptimist: Mr. Westin, You said "Yes, we've lost 4.3 million jobshttp://www.huffingtonpost.com/social/NorCalOptimist/media-fact-checking_b_1862561_184720412.htmlHistory |Permalink |Share it
Silverfern553 Fans 20 minutes ago ( 7:25 AM)Hardly, Bush did not make catching OBL a priority.Silverfern: Hardly, Bush did not make catching OBL a priority.http://www.huffingtonpost.com/social/Silverfern/media-fact-checking_b_1862561_184741336.htmlHistory |Permalink |Share itThis comment has been down-ranked into oblivion. View comment You have not right to carry out this operation or Error this operation. Loading comments…This comment has been down-ranked into oblivion. View comment You have not right to carry out this operation or Error this operation. Loading comments… davidprosser110 Fans 5 hours ago ( 3:09 AM)Part 2:The world has changed vastly. It isn't just about truth, and post truth, it is also about the fundamental truths which neither candidate currently wishes to address. More problematically, is the views of Obama in regards to this issue, seeing himself as some sort of peace-maker and global icon.
But if he were really such, then he would be speaking of this key issue affecting us all today: Global interconnection and interdependence, our lack of knowledge of it, and how it is the root of all our problems today due to our lack of acting in accordance with what it entails.davidprosser: Part 2: The world has changed vastly. It isn't justhttp://www.huffingtonpost.com/social/davidprosser/media-fact-checking_b_1862561_184719530.htmlHistory |Permalink |Share it
Kalifornika66 Fans 3 hours ago ( 4:55 AM)Your anti Obama view is a little surprising. Obama did recognize in his speech tonight that there are globalization issues in play. In fact, he proposed trying to change the tax code to reward companies that build factories and create jobs here rather than the ones shipping jobs overseas.It is also curious that you turn from attacking "both candidates" on this point to criticizing only Obama for failing to address it. Romney's policies will likely make us more susceptible to the negative impacts of globalization and the modern international corporation.
And there are many aspects of government that specifically address impacts from our interconnected world. For example, if you want to travel to another country, you can get information on the immunizations you should get to protect yourself against being biologically defenseless in a biologically hostile environment from the Centers for Disease Control.
Lastly, you do know that many systems (biological, economic, ecological, social, demographic, etc.) started changing world-wide due to the effects of globalization beginning around the time of Columbus, right?Kalifornika: Your anti Obama view is a little surprising. Obama didhttp://www.huffingtonpost.com/social/Kalifornika/media-fact-checking_b_1862561_184727961.htmlHistory |Permalink |Share itThis comment has been down-ranked into oblivion. View comment You have not right to carry out this operation or Error this operation.
Loading comments…This comment has been down-ranked into oblivion. View comment You have not right to carry out this operation or Error this operation. Loading comments… davidprosser110 Fans 5 hours ago ( 3:09 AM)My comment in 2 parts.Part 1:
There are also other truths which are sorely missing in this presidential election. First, not a truth, but a call-to-action: Both candidates have called for a return to American Exceptionalism. More on that in a moment.
The key truth that has not been presented: The economy. This is the single issue voters are most concerned with, watching income inequality rise, the middle class shrink, the impoverished growing.
The issue of American exceptionalism in regards to this issue is a troubling one. It is troubling because American exceptionalism is about America being somehow better than other nations, better ideas, better morals, etc. It flies in the face of the global economic interconnection and interdependence which today dominates the global economy.
As a result, it is not tough to see why neither candidate so far has sought to speak on this issue: That our economic woes cannot be addressed without global cooperation and participation, and not through American exceptionalism (which can just as easily be defined as American egotism).davidprosser: My comment in 2 parts. Part 1: There are alsohttp://www.huffingtonpost.com/social/davidprosser/media-fact-checking_b_1862561_184719502.htmlHistory |Permalink |Share itThis comment has been down-ranked into oblivion. View comment You have not right to carry out this operation or Error this operation.
Loading comments… tammy3901508 Fans 5 hours ago ( 2:24 AM)Unfortunatly, the fox viewers, being told that all the other stations lie, don't watch anything else, so they are never exposed to the truth. They still believe that WMDs were in fact found in Iraq.tammy3901: Unfortunatly, the fox viewers, being told that all the otherhttp://www.huffingtonpost.com/social/tammy3901/media-fact-checking_b_1862561_184714360.htmlHistory |Permalink |Share it mrmike161111 Fans 3 hours ago ( 4:40 AM)Tammy, that is so judgmental and wrong. I watch more that Fox News and know there were not any WMD's found in Iraq. Which causes me great concern as Saddam had them AND used the against his own people. So I still wonder, where are they ?mrmike1611: Tammy, that is so judgmental and wrong. I watch morehttp://www.huffingtonpost.com/social/mrmike1611/media-fact-checking_b_1862561_184726844.htmlHistory |Permalink |Share it waldopepperI'd tell you all about me if you were my friend.671 Fans 2 hours ago ( 6:05 AM)"So I still wonder, where are they?"They were destroyed under UN mandate/supervision.waldopepper: "So I still wonder, where are they?" They were destroyedhttp://www.huffingtonpost.com/social/waldopepper/media-fact-checking_b_1862561_184732907.htmlHistory |Permalink |Share itThis comment has been down-ranked into oblivion. View comment You have not right to carry out this operation or Error this operation.
Loading comments…This comment has been down-ranked into oblivion. View comment You have not right to carry out this operation or Error this operation. Loading comments… This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program NorCalOptimist5 Fans 3 hours ago ( 5:01 AM)Tammy, How did you become such an expert on "fox viewers"? LOL, where do you get YOUR truthful information? Please tell us all what else "fox viewers" believe. Thanks for sharing your valuable, knowledgable and unbiased view...NorCalOptimist: Tammy, How did you become such an expert on "foxhttp://www.huffingtonpost.com/social/NorCalOptimist/media-fact-checking_b_1862561_184728325.htmlHistory |Permalink |Share it mrmike161111 Fans 3 hours ago ( 5:10 AM)NCO, I would bet she CAN answer that !mrmike1611: NCO, I would bet she CAN answer that !http://www.huffingtonpost.com/social/mrmike1611/media-fact-checking_b_1862561_184728917.htmlHistory |Permalink |Share itThis comment has been down-ranked into oblivion. View comment You have not right to carry out this operation or Error this operation. Loading comments… tammy3901508 Fans 51 minutes ago ( 6:55 AM)Watch the free movie on YouTube called outfoxed. Check out the free online book at Theauthoritarians.com. Roger ailes himself, has SAID that they are a right leaning operation. They employed 4 presidential candidates. They were cheerleaders for the bush war. They have never, ever had a nice thing to say about democrats and they twist everything that the dems or Obama says. They used a defense in a court of law when they were being sued, that they didn't have to tell the TRUTH, regarding factual stories, because they are an ENTERTAINMENT CHANNEL. Canada has a law on the books that ALL news stations must present the facts truthfully which is why fox doesn't have a Canadian fox news, like they have in the states.tammy3901: Watch the free movie on YouTube called outfoxed. Check outhttp://www.huffingtonpost.com/social/tammy3901/media-fact-checking_b_1862561_184737611.htmlHistory |Permalink |Share itThis comment has been down-ranked into oblivion. View comment You have not right to carry out this operation or Error this operation. Loading comments…This comment has been down-ranked into oblivion. View comment You have not right to carry out this operation or Error this operation. There are More Comments on this Thread. Click Here To See them AllLoading comments… Loading comments…This comment has been down-ranked into oblivion. View comment You have not right to carry out this operation or Error this operation. Loading comments… cw4eva84 Fans 6 hours ago ( 2:06 AM)Facts are only as accurate as the spin we give them.ref: Karl Rove Playbook, p.137cw4eva: Facts are only as accurate as the spin we givehttp://www.huffingtonpost.com/social/cw4eva/media-fact-checking_b_1862561_184711938.htmlHistory |Permalink |Share itThis comment has been down-ranked into oblivion. View comment You have not right to carry out this operation or Error this operation.
Loading comments… HUFFPOST SUPER USERProudObamacanA Real Republican - not a Right Wingnut502 Fans 6 hours ago ( 1:41 AM)Instead of blaming the media - look in the mirrorWhat I read here is just a bunch of false equivalence - and a poorly conceived post. No wonder ABC News is so badProudObamacan: Instead of blaming the media - look in the mirrorhttp://www.huffingtonpost.com/social/ProudObamacan/media-fact-checking_b_1862561_184707839.htmlHistory |Permalink |Share itThis comment has been down-ranked into oblivion. View comment You have not right to carry out this operation or Error this operation.
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